If I Could Write a Book...

Marissa · 12-07-2006, 03:55 PM

At Davids conference about a month ago, he was doing GREAT! The past few weeks though, there's been a considerable change in his behavior...the emotional aspect of losing Daddy is starting to rear it's ugly head~coupled with the ADHD and yikes!

So here's where I'm torn...report cards came out today. He is at proficiency in almost every subject area and discipline that they are graded on. A couple need improvement but not enough to be concerned about. However, in his classroom skills, social development, successful learning skills, he has hit bottom! He cannot stay on task, he is not completing daily work in class or at home....it's not only affecting him, but his classmates. I want to

.

I believe we are heading down the formalized diagnosis and IEP road, but the situation stands that there is 1 teacher for 28 students.

I may have the opportunity to place him in a private school with a ration of 1:18, and if it does open up to us, I'm seriously considering it. Is moving him after Christmas break the way to go?

opinions???

I am meeting with the school staff and his counselor next week, we are also involving his pediatrician.

melphy · 12-07-2006, 04:04 PM

No advice...
Just a

Marissa · 12-07-2006, 04:14 PM

thanks Mel!

CandleGram · 12-07-2006, 04:30 PM

That's a toughy! While the extra attention could benefit him, my first reaction was that he doesn't need more upheavel and change right now.

Karen

Natalie · 12-07-2006, 04:31 PM

Had he been diagnosed with ADHD prior to this?

I think you're seeing a delayed reaction to losing Dad. It may take him a little bit of time to turn things around and perhaps a smaller class size might help. The school counselor should definitely be involved as well.

Marissa · 12-07-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleGram

That's a toughy! While the extra attention could benefit him, my first reaction was that he doesn't need more upheavel and change right now.

Karen

I totally agree and therein lies my dilemma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalie

Had he been diagnosed with ADHD prior to this?

I think you're seeing a delayed reaction to losing Dad. It may take him a little bit of time to turn things around and perhaps a smaller class size might help. The school counselor should definitely be involved as well.

He's been on meds since the end of kindergarten for ADHD, his Kindergarten teacher, pediatrician and other teachers since then (including school and private counselor) all agree that he does have ADHD. We're most likely going to have a formal evaluation scheduled.

Anne R · 12-07-2006, 04:41 PM

Kandi · 12-07-2006, 05:15 PM

Maybe it is time to tweak his medication....Sorry things are going tough.

christy · 12-07-2006, 05:15 PM

I have no clue what kind of advice to give on this one....just wanted to give you a hug.

***Steve*** · 12-07-2006, 05:42 PM

Plus it is getting closer to his first Christmas without his dad.

Dappled Things · 12-07-2006, 06:20 PM

and

ers

I don't think I would move him, if I were you, unless he already knows a bunch of kids at the other school and wouldn't have a hard time making friends. Uprooting him would be another stressor on him.

CandleGram · 12-07-2006, 07:54 PM

I've been thinking about your problem this evening. I really don't think this is the time to be moving him to an unfamiliar environment. He needs all the normalcy of surroundings he can get now, maybe next school year as well.

Karen

Gena · 12-07-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dappled Things

and

ers

I don't think I would move him, if I were you, unless he already knows a bunch of kids at the other school and wouldn't have a hard time making friends. Uprooting him would be another stressor on him.

I would agree. Unless this would cause him to be held back a grade (assuming the school didn't take into consideration him losing his dad), I wouldn't do another stressful thing so soon.

PoohBunniesHutc · 12-07-2006, 08:25 PM

I really sympathize with all he is going through, but it looks as if he's trying to excuse his bad behavior on losing his dad.

Time to put the clamps down. Make change his #1 goal next report card with weekly improvement required. Start taking away priviledges, etc. if he fails to maintain a certain level.

Yes, he's grieving and yes its understandable, but he can't go through life leaning on his father's death as a reason for not applying himself.

Start taking his father's death out of the equation and ask yourself "If Mark were still here, would I accept this?" If the answer is no, then a change needs to be made and it needs to start with David. Changing schools so that he has more attention isn't going to change the fact that his father is gone, it isn't going to change the fact that this is the first Christmas, in fact, the only thing that is going to change is his environment and his behavior will still continue no matter what the student ratio is.

Its a fine line to straddle. ON one hand, you want to be understanding and let him grieve in his own way and let him work through this. On the other hand, his grief needs to move away from self destructive behavior to healing behavior.

I don't envy the situation you are in. Its a hard road you have ahead for both of you and you have all my support and all my prayers and you try to find the middle ground that is just right for you. Yes, you are going to make mistakes, you aren't perfect, but you will learn from those mistakes and you will grow from them and someday, you will be comfortable in the role you have as both parents. Until then, be patient with yourself and trust yourself, you are the best judge of what's right for David.

candlheil · 12-07-2006, 08:48 PM

I can't even begin to understand what you are going through. However, I will let you know of how different schools can be.

Timothy is in the 3rd grade. He was in developmental preschool for 2 years before kindergarten. This is his 8th school. All were very different from each other. This is actually his 6th school if you are only counting from kindergarten on. I have found that it is the teacher and the school that makes the difference of Timothy's educational ability. Grades aren't necessarily the indicator. It is how much he is learning. IL only had 10 kids in the class. He had outstanding grades. However, he also had way too much homework. Here he has less than stellar grades, but almost no homework. However, I have some serious red flages about this school. The only way that I will find my answers is to make unexpected visits.

Why not do what I have had to resort to doing here? I will show up early bringing Timothy a lunch (either fast food or a lunchable) and to eat with him - I make a point to show up early and wait sitting unannounced to the classroom and him and his teacher (I have registered at the office that I am there) and sit at a bench in the hallway and observe. First time that this happened was completely unintentional (was delivering his bday snacks), but that was when my red flag was blinked on.

Brat! · 12-08-2006, 05:18 AM

I wouldn't move him at this point.

True, he is most likely dealing with the emotional aspects of losing his Dad, but I do have another suggestion for you. You can take it for what's it's worth.

Children or adults diagnosed with ADHD most likely have another underlying disability such as dyslexia, language disability, etc. If you are truly concerned about a formalized diagnosis and going down the IEP road, my suggestion would be (from past experience) is to request an independent neuro-psychological evaluation. It is pricey, so I would suggest asking the school to conduct one at their expense.

Some great websites you may want to check out:

www.wrightslaw.com
www.ncld.org
www.ldonline.org

Just trying to give you another perspective. This was the key in my DS's situation.

to you Riss! Call me if you want more info. You have my #

Candice · 12-08-2006, 07:41 AM

I know that I am the last person in BoBLand that you want an opinion from. But I've been thinking about this thread every since it was posted. You can ignore my opinion, blast me for it, or read it - totally up to you.

Everyone grieves in different ways, different stages and different times. No one has the right to determine how someone else grieves. And honestly, I don't believe now...or any other time for that matter....it should be the time to rule with an iron fist. David is an 8 year old child. I strongly disagree with others that he would manipulate the situation using his father's death as an excuse for behavior. I know many adults, myself included, who have struggled moving past the emotional consequences of the death of a parent. Again, David is a child. Each step that you take as a parent in your grieving path could possibly have an equal and opposite reaction from your child. Add to that his own steps in his grieving path and sometimes it causes issues like what you are seeing. I highly doubt that any child truly gets enjoyment out of struggling in school, whether it be emotionally or educationally. Children are cruel, and I'm certain he suffers consequences just from his peers. That unfortunately could lead to even more issues. Other children do not necessarily understand what he personally is going through, they have nothing to compare it to.

If he was doing well, by your assessment and the teacher's assessment, up until this point - maybe a little investigating and thought will help you see what might have happened recently to change things. If you think back on the last month, you've taken an extended trip to the location of Mark's last days. I understand why you needed to take that trip on your grieving path and I'm not at all implying that you shouldn't have done it. But, what were the consequences to David that might have changed his ability to cope and travel on his grieving path? His mother left. His mother went to the same place that his father didn't come home alive from. His mother was gone for many days.

Boys and girls are inherently different in how they react to situations. But I will tell you how my daughter, who was the same age, reacted when I had to leave the house for even small amounts of time such as for shows. IF she knew I had to travel any distance, she immediately had a change in behavior. She would either be tearful or angry. Through many hours of talking and many months later...she finally told me that she was worried that if I left I wouldn't return. Even though her father died of cancer and she knew I wasn't going to get cancer from leaving the house....she was old enough to understand there were accidents other places that could result in death. Her fear was that I would leave, and not come back. Is it rational? Of course not, but it was her reality and that's what we had to deal with.

Every single step on my grieving path has had a reaction from my children. We need to remember, we are dealing with the death of a spouse and they are dealing with the death of a parent, two totally different things. When I removed Bill's clothes, when I redid my bedroom, etc. etc. etc. Most changes I made were well after the year mark...I myself have struggled on my grieving path and still do. But even with that amount of time, my children have struggled and had emotional reactions and consequences in their life (whether it be school or work) as I've taken these steps. Fortunately, my children have something that David doesn't....they have each other. They have siblings who understand what they are going through, and they can talk to each other about things that they can't talk about to me and have someone understand their feelings as a child dealing with the death of a parent. I know in my heart there have been many times I just could NOT be there for my chidlren like I should have been, because of where I was in my grief. So they've never had to feel all alone and dealing with it because of just the fact that they had each other. Maybe a strong grief support group with children would help give him the ability to understand that he is not alone, as a child who has lost a parent. The best place to find them in our area is at a hospital.

An understanding and supporting school staff is necessary also. I understand that quite a few adults in the school system might not understand the grieving path also. My children were very blessed in that respect. We have lived in the same house since we were married. So the school system knew our family well. All of my four children went to the same schools, they helped them process through their father's diagnosis with cancer and his treatment. They helped and were present at his visitation and funeral. They helped each one of them during the next few years as they struggled. Since my youngest was the same age as David, her teachers saw some changes also. She was already shy, and in quite a few situations became even more so. She cried at odd times, she would show anger - especially when they had parents days...Christmas making projects for Mom and Dad, etc. These are David's first times through all these things. An understanding, caring and loving school staff will be necessary and could possibly make all the difference in how his path goes from this point. I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect certain behavior from him, but that loving guidance versus strict discipline is needed in my opinion. I talked with Zoë's school staff, explained to them and brought them material on how important their part was for her. Again, luckily they knew our family well. If she was angry, they wouldn't hesitate to take her from the room...spend the minute it took to hug her, to show her that they cared, and to help her through the process of that day. If they didn't have the time (because our ratio is/was 30/1) there was office support staff and a principle, nurse, vice principle etc. that could step in. Sometimes all that is truly needed is understanding and love and contact and things can move on for that day. Couple David's grief with possible ADHD issues and I'm sure it only complicates matters as they process things differently than average. Carol has some awesome suggestions. I don't know if changing schools would truly help, unless you know the support, both emotionally and with his ADHD, that is necessary is in place for him or that you can find another avenue for that support system.

I know you disagree with me, that you feel you didn't sign up for this.....to do this alone. My personal thoughts on that are when you marry and decide to have children, that is always a possibility whether it be from divorce - death - whatever reason. While I am sure you don't feel that you are conveying that to David, I pray he's never heard you say it or seen body language that shows it. I know and understand how frustrating it can be, I'm living it also. And I do know, that even when our children don't hear us say the words...they do pick up on our feelings. What it comes down to, is that quite frankly he didn't sign up for it either. It is what it is. I pray for you both, I know this isn't easy and certainly not anything that we wished or hoped for in our life. It is a daily struggle, with unexpected twists and turns - some happy some not, some good some not, some easy some not. And truly, you are not alone...if you ask for the emotional help fand support rom all the people around you. If they don't have the knowledge, seek it out and share it with them.

Marissa · 12-08-2006, 08:40 AM

Thank you all for your input...I really appreciate it (and yes Candice, this includes your post as well).

I will be meeting with the school personnel this next week, they are an awesome staff and will do just about anything for David and I that I ask for, so I have no doubt we can work something out. I honestly have no complaints about the current setting other than the class size and the fact that it lends itself to NOT being able to allow for flexibility w/ Davids behavior.

I did contact the Principal of the other school to see if it was even an option. She emailed me back at 8:45 last night saying that there indeed is room in the 3rd grade class, it only has 13 students in it and it's a male teacher. She also invited me to stop in anytime next week. I may do that just to check it out. It's a Missouri-Synod School, we're ECLA but I don't think that would be too much of a problem for David.

That said, I am not making a decision today nor next week on this. I will be talking to many people, Pastors, Counselors (both private and school), I do want formalized evaluations so that we are able to get a concrete plan in place for David and a concrete Team that will be available for support. We made some big changes last night and this morning and saw a huge improvement already on the homefront, I can't wait to see how it affects his school day today. It will be interesting.

Thanks again everyone!

Marissa · 12-07-2006, 03:55 PM

At Davids conference about a month ago, he was doing GREAT! The past few weeks though, there's been a considerable change in his behavior...the emotional aspect of losing Daddy is starting to rear it's ugly head~coupled with the ADHD and yikes!

So here's where I'm torn...report cards came out today. He is at proficiency in almost every subject area and discipline that they are graded on. A couple need improvement but not enough to be concerned about. However, in his classroom skills, social development, successful learning skills, he has hit bottom! He cannot stay on task, he is not completing daily work in class or at home....it's not only affecting him, but his classmates. I want to

.

I believe we are heading down the formalized diagnosis and IEP road, but the situation stands that there is 1 teacher for 28 students.

I may have the opportunity to place him in a private school with a ration of 1:18, and if it does open up to us, I'm seriously considering it. Is moving him after Christmas break the way to go?

opinions???

I am meeting with the school staff and his counselor next week, we are also involving his pediatrician.

melphy · 12-07-2006, 04:04 PM

No advice...
Just a

Marissa · 12-07-2006, 04:14 PM

thanks Mel!

CandleGram · 12-07-2006, 04:30 PM

That's a toughy! While the extra attention could benefit him, my first reaction was that he doesn't need more upheavel and change right now.

Karen

Natalie · 12-07-2006, 04:31 PM

Had he been diagnosed with ADHD prior to this?

I think you're seeing a delayed reaction to losing Dad. It may take him a little bit of time to turn things around and perhaps a smaller class size might help. The school counselor should definitely be involved as well.

Marissa · 12-07-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleGram

That's a toughy! While the extra attention could benefit him, my first reaction was that he doesn't need more upheavel and change right now.

Karen

I totally agree and therein lies my dilemma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalie

Had he been diagnosed with ADHD prior to this?

I think you're seeing a delayed reaction to losing Dad. It may take him a little bit of time to turn things around and perhaps a smaller class size might help. The school counselor should definitely be involved as well.

He's been on meds since the end of kindergarten for ADHD, his Kindergarten teacher, pediatrician and other teachers since then (including school and private counselor) all agree that he does have ADHD. We're most likely going to have a formal evaluation scheduled.

Anne R · 12-07-2006, 04:41 PM

Kandi · 12-07-2006, 05:15 PM

Maybe it is time to tweak his medication....Sorry things are going tough.

christy · 12-07-2006, 05:15 PM

I have no clue what kind of advice to give on this one....just wanted to give you a hug.

***Steve*** · 12-07-2006, 05:42 PM

Plus it is getting closer to his first Christmas without his dad.

Dappled Things · 12-07-2006, 06:20 PM

and

ers

I don't think I would move him, if I were you, unless he already knows a bunch of kids at the other school and wouldn't have a hard time making friends. Uprooting him would be another stressor on him.

CandleGram · 12-07-2006, 07:54 PM

I've been thinking about your problem this evening. I really don't think this is the time to be moving him to an unfamiliar environment. He needs all the normalcy of surroundings he can get now, maybe next school year as well.

Karen

Gena · 12-07-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dappled Things

and

ers

I don't think I would move him, if I were you, unless he already knows a bunch of kids at the other school and wouldn't have a hard time making friends. Uprooting him would be another stressor on him.

I would agree. Unless this would cause him to be held back a grade (assuming the school didn't take into consideration him losing his dad), I wouldn't do another stressful thing so soon.

PoohBunniesHutc · 12-07-2006, 08:25 PM

I really sympathize with all he is going through, but it looks as if he's trying to excuse his bad behavior on losing his dad.

Time to put the clamps down. Make change his #1 goal next report card with weekly improvement required. Start taking away priviledges, etc. if he fails to maintain a certain level.

Yes, he's grieving and yes its understandable, but he can't go through life leaning on his father's death as a reason for not applying himself.

Start taking his father's death out of the equation and ask yourself "If Mark were still here, would I accept this?" If the answer is no, then a change needs to be made and it needs to start with David. Changing schools so that he has more attention isn't going to change the fact that his father is gone, it isn't going to change the fact that this is the first Christmas, in fact, the only thing that is going to change is his environment and his behavior will still continue no matter what the student ratio is.

Its a fine line to straddle. ON one hand, you want to be understanding and let him grieve in his own way and let him work through this. On the other hand, his grief needs to move away from self destructive behavior to healing behavior.

I don't envy the situation you are in. Its a hard road you have ahead for both of you and you have all my support and all my prayers and you try to find the middle ground that is just right for you. Yes, you are going to make mistakes, you aren't perfect, but you will learn from those mistakes and you will grow from them and someday, you will be comfortable in the role you have as both parents. Until then, be patient with yourself and trust yourself, you are the best judge of what's right for David.

candlheil · 12-07-2006, 08:48 PM

I can't even begin to understand what you are going through. However, I will let you know of how different schools can be.

Timothy is in the 3rd grade. He was in developmental preschool for 2 years before kindergarten. This is his 8th school. All were very different from each other. This is actually his 6th school if you are only counting from kindergarten on. I have found that it is the teacher and the school that makes the difference of Timothy's educational ability. Grades aren't necessarily the indicator. It is how much he is learning. IL only had 10 kids in the class. He had outstanding grades. However, he also had way too much homework. Here he has less than stellar grades, but almost no homework. However, I have some serious red flages about this school. The only way that I will find my answers is to make unexpected visits.

Why not do what I have had to resort to doing here? I will show up early bringing Timothy a lunch (either fast food or a lunchable) and to eat with him - I make a point to show up early and wait sitting unannounced to the classroom and him and his teacher (I have registered at the office that I am there) and sit at a bench in the hallway and observe. First time that this happened was completely unintentional (was delivering his bday snacks), but that was when my red flag was blinked on.

Brat! · 12-08-2006, 05:18 AM

I wouldn't move him at this point.

True, he is most likely dealing with the emotional aspects of losing his Dad, but I do have another suggestion for you. You can take it for what's it's worth.

Children or adults diagnosed with ADHD most likely have another underlying disability such as dyslexia, language disability, etc. If you are truly concerned about a formalized diagnosis and going down the IEP road, my suggestion would be (from past experience) is to request an independent neuro-psychological evaluation. It is pricey, so I would suggest asking the school to conduct one at their expense.

Some great websites you may want to check out:

www.wrightslaw.com
www.ncld.org
www.ldonline.org

Just trying to give you another perspective. This was the key in my DS's situation.

to you Riss! Call me if you want more info. You have my #

Candice · 12-08-2006, 07:41 AM

I know that I am the last person in BoBLand that you want an opinion from. But I've been thinking about this thread every since it was posted. You can ignore my opinion, blast me for it, or read it - totally up to you.

Everyone grieves in different ways, different stages and different times. No one has the right to determine how someone else grieves. And honestly, I don't believe now...or any other time for that matter....it should be the time to rule with an iron fist. David is an 8 year old child. I strongly disagree with others that he would manipulate the situation using his father's death as an excuse for behavior. I know many adults, myself included, who have struggled moving past the emotional consequences of the death of a parent. Again, David is a child. Each step that you take as a parent in your grieving path could possibly have an equal and opposite reaction from your child. Add to that his own steps in his grieving path and sometimes it causes issues like what you are seeing. I highly doubt that any child truly gets enjoyment out of struggling in school, whether it be emotionally or educationally. Children are cruel, and I'm certain he suffers consequences just from his peers. That unfortunately could lead to even more issues. Other children do not necessarily understand what he personally is going through, they have nothing to compare it to.

If he was doing well, by your assessment and the teacher's assessment, up until this point - maybe a little investigating and thought will help you see what might have happened recently to change things. If you think back on the last month, you've taken an extended trip to the location of Mark's last days. I understand why you needed to take that trip on your grieving path and I'm not at all implying that you shouldn't have done it. But, what were the consequences to David that might have changed his ability to cope and travel on his grieving path? His mother left. His mother went to the same place that his father didn't come home alive from. His mother was gone for many days.

Boys and girls are inherently different in how they react to situations. But I will tell you how my daughter, who was the same age, reacted when I had to leave the house for even small amounts of time such as for shows. IF she knew I had to travel any distance, she immediately had a change in behavior. She would either be tearful or angry. Through many hours of talking and many months later...she finally told me that she was worried that if I left I wouldn't return. Even though her father died of cancer and she knew I wasn't going to get cancer from leaving the house....she was old enough to understand there were accidents other places that could result in death. Her fear was that I would leave, and not come back. Is it rational? Of course not, but it was her reality and that's what we had to deal with.

Every single step on my grieving path has had a reaction from my children. We need to remember, we are dealing with the death of a spouse and they are dealing with the death of a parent, two totally different things. When I removed Bill's clothes, when I redid my bedroom, etc. etc. etc. Most changes I made were well after the year mark...I myself have struggled on my grieving path and still do. But even with that amount of time, my children have struggled and had emotional reactions and consequences in their life (whether it be school or work) as I've taken these steps. Fortunately, my children have something that David doesn't....they have each other. They have siblings who understand what they are going through, and they can talk to each other about things that they can't talk about to me and have someone understand their feelings as a child dealing with the death of a parent. I know in my heart there have been many times I just could NOT be there for my chidlren like I should have been, because of where I was in my grief. So they've never had to feel all alone and dealing with it because of just the fact that they had each other. Maybe a strong grief support group with children would help give him the ability to understand that he is not alone, as a child who has lost a parent. The best place to find them in our area is at a hospital.

An understanding and supporting school staff is necessary also. I understand that quite a few adults in the school system might not understand the grieving path also. My children were very blessed in that respect. We have lived in the same house since we were married. So the school system knew our family well. All of my four children went to the same schools, they helped them process through their father's diagnosis with cancer and his treatment. They helped and were present at his visitation and funeral. They helped each one of them during the next few years as they struggled. Since my youngest was the same age as David, her teachers saw some changes also. She was already shy, and in quite a few situations became even more so. She cried at odd times, she would show anger - especially when they had parents days...Christmas making projects for Mom and Dad, etc. These are David's first times through all these things. An understanding, caring and loving school staff will be necessary and could possibly make all the difference in how his path goes from this point. I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect certain behavior from him, but that loving guidance versus strict discipline is needed in my opinion. I talked with Zoë's school staff, explained to them and brought them material on how important their part was for her. Again, luckily they knew our family well. If she was angry, they wouldn't hesitate to take her from the room...spend the minute it took to hug her, to show her that they cared, and to help her through the process of that day. If they didn't have the time (because our ratio is/was 30/1) there was office support staff and a principle, nurse, vice principle etc. that could step in. Sometimes all that is truly needed is understanding and love and contact and things can move on for that day. Couple David's grief with possible ADHD issues and I'm sure it only complicates matters as they process things differently than average. Carol has some awesome suggestions. I don't know if changing schools would truly help, unless you know the support, both emotionally and with his ADHD, that is necessary is in place for him or that you can find another avenue for that support system.

I know you disagree with me, that you feel you didn't sign up for this.....to do this alone. My personal thoughts on that are when you marry and decide to have children, that is always a possibility whether it be from divorce - death - whatever reason. While I am sure you don't feel that you are conveying that to David, I pray he's never heard you say it or seen body language that shows it. I know and understand how frustrating it can be, I'm living it also. And I do know, that even when our children don't hear us say the words...they do pick up on our feelings. What it comes down to, is that quite frankly he didn't sign up for it either. It is what it is. I pray for you both, I know this isn't easy and certainly not anything that we wished or hoped for in our life. It is a daily struggle, with unexpected twists and turns - some happy some not, some good some not, some easy some not. And truly, you are not alone...if you ask for the emotional help fand support rom all the people around you. If they don't have the knowledge, seek it out and share it with them.

Marissa · 12-08-2006, 08:40 AM

Thank you all for your input...I really appreciate it (and yes Candice, this includes your post as well).

I will be meeting with the school personnel this next week, they are an awesome staff and will do just about anything for David and I that I ask for, so I have no doubt we can work something out. I honestly have no complaints about the current setting other than the class size and the fact that it lends itself to NOT being able to allow for flexibility w/ Davids behavior.

I did contact the Principal of the other school to see if it was even an option. She emailed me back at 8:45 last night saying that there indeed is room in the 3rd grade class, it only has 13 students in it and it's a male teacher. She also invited me to stop in anytime next week. I may do that just to check it out. It's a Missouri-Synod School, we're ECLA but I don't think that would be too much of a problem for David.

That said, I am not making a decision today nor next week on this. I will be talking to many people, Pastors, Counselors (both private and school), I do want formalized evaluations so that we are able to get a concrete plan in place for David and a concrete Team that will be available for support. We made some big changes last night and this morning and saw a huge improvement already on the homefront, I can't wait to see how it affects his school day today. It will be interesting.

Thanks again everyone!

12-07-2006, 03:55 PM	#1
Marissa questioning my sanity Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 14,776	Very torn right now...report card At Davids conference about a month ago, he was doing GREAT! The past few weeks though, there's been a considerable change in his behavior...the emotional aspect of losing Daddy is starting to rear it's ugly head~coupled with the ADHD and yikes! So here's where I'm torn...report cards came out today. He is at proficiency in almost every subject area and discipline that they are graded on. A couple need improvement but not enough to be concerned about. However, in his classroom skills, social development, successful learning skills, he has hit bottom! He cannot stay on task, he is not completing daily work in class or at home....it's not only affecting him, but his classmates. I want to . I believe we are heading down the formalized diagnosis and IEP road, but the situation stands that there is 1 teacher for 28 students. I may have the opportunity to place him in a private school with a ration of 1:18, and if it does open up to us, I'm seriously considering it. Is moving him after Christmas break the way to go? opinions??? I am meeting with the school staff and his counselor next week, we are also involving his pediatrician.
	Living life ...

12-07-2006, 04:14 PM	#3
Marissa questioning my sanity Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 14,776	thanks Mel!
	Living life ...

12-07-2006, 05:42 PM	#10
*Steve* I dress up for wax Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Streamwood, IL Posts: 23,945	Plus it is getting closer to his first Christmas without his dad.
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12-07-2006, 06:20 PM	#11
Dappled Things Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7,056	and and ers I don't think I would move him, if I were you, unless he already knows a bunch of kids at the other school and wouldn't have a hard time making friends. Uprooting him would be another stressor on him.

12-08-2006, 08:40 AM	#18
Marissa questioning my sanity Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 14,776	Thank you all for your input...I really appreciate it (and yes Candice, this includes your post as well). I will be meeting with the school personnel this next week, they are an awesome staff and will do just about anything for David and I that I ask for, so I have no doubt we can work something out. I honestly have no complaints about the current setting other than the class size and the fact that it lends itself to NOT being able to allow for flexibility w/ Davids behavior. I did contact the Principal of the other school to see if it was even an option. She emailed me back at 8:45 last night saying that there indeed is room in the 3rd grade class, it only has 13 students in it and it's a male teacher. She also invited me to stop in anytime next week. I may do that just to check it out. It's a Missouri-Synod School, we're ECLA but I don't think that would be too much of a problem for David. That said, I am not making a decision today nor next week on this. I will be talking to many people, Pastors, Counselors (both private and school), I do want formalized evaluations so that we are able to get a concrete plan in place for David and a concrete Team that will be available for support. We made some big changes last night and this morning and saw a huge improvement already on the homefront, I can't wait to see how it affects his school day today. It will be interesting. Thanks again everyone!
	Living life ...

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Thursday, December 07, 2006

David ... and school

12-07-2006, 04:04 PM	#2
melphy Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stevens Point, WI Posts: 16,124	No advice... Just a

12-07-2006, 04:30 PM	#4
CandleGram Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Inverness, FL Posts: 13,434	That's a toughy! While the extra attention could benefit him, my first reaction was that he doesn't need more upheavel and change right now. Karen

12-07-2006, 04:31 PM	#5
Natalie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: W of St. Louis Posts: 3,271	Had he been diagnosed with ADHD prior to this? I think you're seeing a delayed reaction to losing Dad. It may take him a little bit of time to turn things around and perhaps a smaller class size might help. The school counselor should definitely be involved as well.

12-07-2006, 04:41 PM	#7
Anne R Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,689

12-07-2006, 05:15 PM	#8
Kandi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tucson Posts: 3,336	Maybe it is time to tweak his medication....Sorry things are going tough.

12-07-2006, 05:15 PM	#9
christy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,853	I have no clue what kind of advice to give on this one....just wanted to give you a hug.

12-07-2006, 07:54 PM	#12
CandleGram Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Inverness, FL Posts: 13,434	I've been thinking about your problem this evening. I really don't think this is the time to be moving him to an unfamiliar environment. He needs all the normalcy of surroundings he can get now, maybe next school year as well. Karen

12-07-2006, 08:25 PM	#14
PoohBunniesHutc Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,869	I really sympathize with all he is going through, but it looks as if he's trying to excuse his bad behavior on losing his dad. Time to put the clamps down. Make change his #1 goal next report card with weekly improvement required. Start taking away priviledges, etc. if he fails to maintain a certain level. Yes, he's grieving and yes its understandable, but he can't go through life leaning on his father's death as a reason for not applying himself. Start taking his father's death out of the equation and ask yourself "If Mark were still here, would I accept this?" If the answer is no, then a change needs to be made and it needs to start with David. Changing schools so that he has more attention isn't going to change the fact that his father is gone, it isn't going to change the fact that this is the first Christmas, in fact, the only thing that is going to change is his environment and his behavior will still continue no matter what the student ratio is. Its a fine line to straddle. ON one hand, you want to be understanding and let him grieve in his own way and let him work through this. On the other hand, his grief needs to move away from self destructive behavior to healing behavior. I don't envy the situation you are in. Its a hard road you have ahead for both of you and you have all my support and all my prayers and you try to find the middle ground that is just right for you. Yes, you are going to make mistakes, you aren't perfect, but you will learn from those mistakes and you will grow from them and someday, you will be comfortable in the role you have as both parents. Until then, be patient with yourself and trust yourself, you are the best judge of what's right for David.

12-07-2006, 08:48 PM	#15
candlheil Government Wife Asteroids Champion! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: united states Posts: 9,553	I can't even begin to understand what you are going through. However, I will let you know of how different schools can be. Timothy is in the 3rd grade. He was in developmental preschool for 2 years before kindergarten. This is his 8th school. All were very different from each other. This is actually his 6th school if you are only counting from kindergarten on. I have found that it is the teacher and the school that makes the difference of Timothy's educational ability. Grades aren't necessarily the indicator. It is how much he is learning. IL only had 10 kids in the class. He had outstanding grades. However, he also had way too much homework. Here he has less than stellar grades, but almost no homework. However, I have some serious red flages about this school. The only way that I will find my answers is to make unexpected visits. Why not do what I have had to resort to doing here? I will show up early bringing Timothy a lunch (either fast food or a lunchable) and to eat with him - I make a point to show up early and wait sitting unannounced to the classroom and him and his teacher (I have registered at the office that I am there) and sit at a bench in the hallway and observe. First time that this happened was completely unintentional (was delivering his bday snacks), but that was when my red flag was blinked on.

12-08-2006, 05:18 AM	#16
Brat! The 2 Loves of My Life Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CT Posts: 2,100	I wouldn't move him at this point. True, he is most likely dealing with the emotional aspects of losing his Dad, but I do have another suggestion for you. You can take it for what's it's worth. Children or adults diagnosed with ADHD most likely have another underlying disability such as dyslexia, language disability, etc. If you are truly concerned about a formalized diagnosis and going down the IEP road, my suggestion would be (from past experience) is to request an independent neuro-psychological evaluation. It is pricey, so I would suggest asking the school to conduct one at their expense. Some great websites you may want to check out: www.wrightslaw.com www.ncld.org www.ldonline.org Just trying to give you another perspective. This was the key in my DS's situation. to you Riss! Call me if you want more info. You have my #

12-08-2006, 07:41 AM	#17
Candice Candejo's Creations! Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,017	I know that I am the last person in BoBLand that you want an opinion from. But I've been thinking about this thread every since it was posted. You can ignore my opinion, blast me for it, or read it - totally up to you. Everyone grieves in different ways, different stages and different times. No one has the right to determine how someone else grieves. And honestly, I don't believe now...or any other time for that matter....it should be the time to rule with an iron fist. David is an 8 year old child. I strongly disagree with others that he would manipulate the situation using his father's death as an excuse for behavior. I know many adults, myself included, who have struggled moving past the emotional consequences of the death of a parent. Again, David is a child. Each step that you take as a parent in your grieving path could possibly have an equal and opposite reaction from your child. Add to that his own steps in his grieving path and sometimes it causes issues like what you are seeing. I highly doubt that any child truly gets enjoyment out of struggling in school, whether it be emotionally or educationally. Children are cruel, and I'm certain he suffers consequences just from his peers. That unfortunately could lead to even more issues. Other children do not necessarily understand what he personally is going through, they have nothing to compare it to. If he was doing well, by your assessment and the teacher's assessment, up until this point - maybe a little investigating and thought will help you see what might have happened recently to change things. If you think back on the last month, you've taken an extended trip to the location of Mark's last days. I understand why you needed to take that trip on your grieving path and I'm not at all implying that you shouldn't have done it. But, what were the consequences to David that might have changed his ability to cope and travel on his grieving path? His mother left. His mother went to the same place that his father didn't come home alive from. His mother was gone for many days. Boys and girls are inherently different in how they react to situations. But I will tell you how my daughter, who was the same age, reacted when I had to leave the house for even small amounts of time such as for shows. IF she knew I had to travel any distance, she immediately had a change in behavior. She would either be tearful or angry. Through many hours of talking and many months later...she finally told me that she was worried that if I left I wouldn't return. Even though her father died of cancer and she knew I wasn't going to get cancer from leaving the house....she was old enough to understand there were accidents other places that could result in death. Her fear was that I would leave, and not come back. Is it rational? Of course not, but it was her reality and that's what we had to deal with. Every single step on my grieving path has had a reaction from my children. We need to remember, we are dealing with the death of a spouse and they are dealing with the death of a parent, two totally different things. When I removed Bill's clothes, when I redid my bedroom, etc. etc. etc. Most changes I made were well after the year mark...I myself have struggled on my grieving path and still do. But even with that amount of time, my children have struggled and had emotional reactions and consequences in their life (whether it be school or work) as I've taken these steps. Fortunately, my children have something that David doesn't....they have each other. They have siblings who understand what they are going through, and they can talk to each other about things that they can't talk about to me and have someone understand their feelings as a child dealing with the death of a parent. I know in my heart there have been many times I just could NOT be there for my chidlren like I should have been, because of where I was in my grief. So they've never had to feel all alone and dealing with it because of just the fact that they had each other. Maybe a strong grief support group with children would help give him the ability to understand that he is not alone, as a child who has lost a parent. The best place to find them in our area is at a hospital. An understanding and supporting school staff is necessary also. I understand that quite a few adults in the school system might not understand the grieving path also. My children were very blessed in that respect. We have lived in the same house since we were married. So the school system knew our family well. All of my four children went to the same schools, they helped them process through their father's diagnosis with cancer and his treatment. They helped and were present at his visitation and funeral. They helped each one of them during the next few years as they struggled. Since my youngest was the same age as David, her teachers saw some changes also. She was already shy, and in quite a few situations became even more so. She cried at odd times, she would show anger - especially when they had parents days...Christmas making projects for Mom and Dad, etc. These are David's first times through all these things. An understanding, caring and loving school staff will be necessary and could possibly make all the difference in how his path goes from this point. I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect certain behavior from him, but that loving guidance versus strict discipline is needed in my opinion. I talked with Zoë's school staff, explained to them and brought them material on how important their part was for her. Again, luckily they knew our family well. If she was angry, they wouldn't hesitate to take her from the room...spend the minute it took to hug her, to show her that they cared, and to help her through the process of that day. If they didn't have the time (because our ratio is/was 30/1) there was office support staff and a principle, nurse, vice principle etc. that could step in. Sometimes all that is truly needed is understanding and love and contact and things can move on for that day. Couple David's grief with possible ADHD issues and I'm sure it only complicates matters as they process things differently than average. Carol has some awesome suggestions. I don't know if changing schools would truly help, unless you know the support, both emotionally and with his ADHD, that is necessary is in place for him or that you can find another avenue for that support system. I know you disagree with me, that you feel you didn't sign up for this.....to do this alone. My personal thoughts on that are when you marry and decide to have children, that is always a possibility whether it be from divorce - death - whatever reason. While I am sure you don't feel that you are conveying that to David, I pray he's never heard you say it or seen body language that shows it. I know and understand how frustrating it can be, I'm living it also. And I do know, that even when our children don't hear us say the words...they do pick up on our feelings. What it comes down to, is that quite frankly he didn't sign up for it either. It is what it is. I pray for you both, I know this isn't easy and certainly not anything that we wished or hoped for in our life. It is a daily struggle, with unexpected twists and turns - some happy some not, some good some not, some easy some not. And truly, you are not alone...if you ask for the emotional help fand support rom all the people around you. If they don't have the knowledge, seek it out and share it with them.